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Comparing the 2H and 3B for a 12 volt engine swap A friend of mine who is a Rover fanatic, who's perspective about Rovers (and using non-Rover parts) I've always enjoyed. We engaged in a good email conversation about the positve versus negative aspects of doing a 3B or 2H conversion, which I think is relevant to anyone considering either of these conversions. Jean Leon writes to a discussion board: Hi, newbie here ;-) Does anyone know if the bellhousing from a 2H diesel 6 cylinder (HJ60) has the same bolt pattern as a 3B 4 cylinder diesel? Is the bolt pattern the same as the gas motors? Also, what size (inches) is the clutch disc commonly found on landcruisers? Anyone know the thickness of it? I'm planning on putting a 2H in my truck, but I need to make some adapters as I'm running a non-standard transmission and transfer case. The truck is a 1966 Land-Rover that I've completely rebuilt. Most of the original parts are gone, and I've replaced them with better, stronger and tougher ones. It currently has a ford 300 inline six, but I have wanted a diesel for a long time now, and I am told that the 2H is one of the best. I found one locally (scrapped truck, good engine) that I want to buy and install in the Land-Rover. I hope you guys don't mind the cross-post, I hope I'm not being a pain in the arse by asking these questions even though they don't apply to a regular Land-Cruiser. thanks in advance, J-L 1966
Land-Rover 109 Xpedition camper
And I write back: Hi
Jean-Leon,
1) I'm not sure if you've bought the 2H yet, I would say avoid it. All Canadian spec 2H's are 24 volt which will make for some $$ to replace the starter motor, alternator, glow plugs, edic motor etc to all function under a 12V system. Or you could wire in dual alternators but you might find that to be much more of a hassle than not. 2) The 3B in my opinion is a much better engine, will better fit in a Land Rover with the short bonnet, has almost identical power output as the 2H, but weighs less because it's 4 cyl and is known to last forever, even more so than the 2H. 3) From what I know the bellhousing and bolt patterns are the same. The only diffence is that transmissions with the 3B have a longer input shaft (the shaft the throwoutbearing and clutch is operated with) with a different spline count. Therefore 3B with H series transmissions need to have the input shaft changed to a B series input shaft and vice versa. 4) I'm not sure what the clutch size is. 5) You might have trouble finding a bellhousing to mate the 2H to your Ford transmission but the first place I would try is Advance Adapters. One benefit of the 2H is it has the same bellhousing and basically the same dimensions as the 2F gas Land Cruiser engine which is quite popular with conversions, so you might be able to find the bellhousing. Otherwise, you might try Lakewood Industries or another (email me backchannel) for a generic bellhousing that you can drill yourself. 6) But finally, after seeing a H55F Toyota 5 speed (fairly heavy duty and came in Canadian Land Cruisers from 83 to 87) in a Rover with a Chevy V6 Vortec with the Land Cruiser transfer case, I think it's the best tranny / tcase setup for a Rover because it has a low 1st and a high 5th, and the T-case is offset. You can find them in 12 volt BJ60s from 83-85, coupled with the stock Toyota offset transfer case it would be awesome. If your Range Rover axle is centered in the rear then switch to a FJ40 rear axle which is roughly the same width. Good luck and let me know how it goes. That 3B (and 2H) is somewhat quiet (good for an old boxy Rover) and has a higher RPM range (3000 RPMS is no problem) than standard diesels but a torquey low. In my opinion an all around a great candidate for your 109. Email me backchannel at andre@collegeinternetsolutions.com if you have have any questions, maybe I can help. Later,
Someone else replied: I've converted from a 3b top 2h, input shaft on gearbox is different (fine spline = 3B) and coarse spline = 2H, 2H clutch = inch bigger..noticeable by eyes, 3b clutch is smaller, bellhousing is longer, but same bolt pattern to gearbox (four bolts in square pattern) slave cylinder is on the other side, the inlet and outlets, fuel pumps and exhaust, everything is on the opposite sides, so its a fairly difficukt conversion, brake lines are in the way..... and on and on..... my turbo 3B had almost as much power as my turbo 2H, in fact...i hardly notice the difference, except the 2H uses more fuel not worth the conversion costs IMO, engine mounts and radiators are different..... there is more...but..that should be enough Jean-Leon Writes back privately via email: Whassup! I figured you would be the man to talk to... I found a 2H in a decent truck, but I've now been informed that this thing is not the best engine, so I'll probably leave it be and buy the 3B, unless it's really really cheap. The 3B I'm looking at has a LOT of miles and is low on compression. It's got out of round cylinder walls, and it smokes a bit on startup when cold. The guy is a really nice lad, he's told me outright that it's a worn motor, but he runs it almost 500 miles a week, and it never misses a beat. However, he's selling the motor without a starter or an alternator. I'll have a price tonight. SO that means I have to buy a starter for it. I'd use the delco alternator. I'd also have to figure out a way of making/running a glow plug controller. Where to go for a starter? How much? The other choice is the Cummins 6AT, which seeme like a great motor, but it's pretty rare. Know where to find them? Locally, I can't find anything. I might just wait and see on that one, as it would guarantee me reayd made adapters and compatibility. Sooo... what happened to outback land cruisers???? What are you upto? J-L
Jean-Léon Morin
- Land-Rovers are not accepted for racing - not at this writing anyhow - and they will never replace the limousine as a way of transporting the very rich, but they do have style and a kind of studied carelessness. A man who rockets around the suburbs- or attempts to seduce fastidious women - in a Land-Rover, is obviously a man worth watching. He must be one who can tell society to go to hell and get away with it. - Car and Driver, sept 1964.
And I write back: Hi Jean-Leon,
Anyways, I was going to say
that I checked out your web site and it looks like we share many of the
same beliefs I think regarding (both) trucks and the
Another good engine I think for you would be the Mercedez Benx 300td engine, higher RPMs so you won't necessarily need an overdrive (though they are nice). There is a company called 4x4labs.com that is going to be producing adapters for the Land Cruiser by christmas, then you can use that 5 speed I mentioned. Honestly to save you headache I'd really recommend using the entire Toyota drivetrain minus axles. That 5 speed is awesome, I had it in my HJ60 (which I finally have pictures of: http://www.cisautoweb.com/dtlc/myhj60.html ) and it is killer with 33s and 3.73 axles because of the low first. Got about 20-25 mpg too... I'd say if the 2H is in good shape then buy it, it looks like it actually will fit if you were able to shoehorn in that Ford 6. As for alternator / starter / glowplugs (namely, the 24V - 12V conversion) it is actually very doable. In Canada I know Toyota sells a 12V version of the 2H starter (though all 2Hs in Canada are 24V in Land Cruisers). 2Hs were also in folk lifts, so you might try a Toyota fork lift place for possibly a better price. You can also get the 12V glow plugs from either, I used to have the part numbers somewhere (I can look them up when I get home if need be) but your Toyota dealer should be able to figure it out. As for glowplugs on a 2H, the cheap and easy way out is 1) with a wire (scrap the factory metal strip) wire all the plugs together. 2) Run a 12V toggle switch to your cab and then directly to the glow plugs. Then flip the switch for about 5-10 seconds on a cold day and it should fire right up. As for the alternator, good that you'll use the Delco unit, the factory is only 30 amps. However, the alternator also serves as the vaccuum pump on a 2H for the brakes (diesels do not produce enough vaccuum to adequately assist the brakes). Therefore you need to rig in either a belt driven pump or check out the electrical unit on this page - in fact mine arrived today: http://www.cisautoweb.com/dtlc/dieselvaccuum.html and you might want to check out a switch like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1857529435&rd which will turn on an off the pump automatically. Likewise, remove the metal canister from the drivers side fender which serves as a storage tank for vaccuum, then plug it into your Rover. And for the EDIC motor: see here for more info: http://www.cisautoweb.com/dtlc/edic.html -- see a picture of it here - on the left side of the screen attached to the long rod: http://www.cisautoweb.com/dtlc/hjmods/inlinefuelpump.jpg you can simply disconnect it and run a cable like a bike brake cable or a throttle control cable to turn on and off your fuel to turn the truck on and off. I actually very much so also recommend the 2H, but the 3B is better in that it 1) has piston skirt cooling for turbocharging, 2) Has cyl linings that can be replaced, 3) Is known to run for ever even on tired engines, but 4) rebuilds are terribly expensive for both. I'd look for a totally rusted or wrecked BJ60 with a 5 speed, or the same with a HJ60, then grab the whole truck. Then you can grab the relays for the glow plugs (and have it engage automatically), that vaccuum canister, etc etc. There is a lot of information
to digest here but I actually think it's good information, I think!
Maybe I'll post it on my site, hmmm....
Andre
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